Interview: Christian Gudegast aims for real life authenticity with his 'Den of Thieves' universe

The writer/director, who lost his home in the wildfires, has big plans for Den of Thieves 3 and shed some details on making a diamond heist movie.

“I have no interest in body count, and have no interest in the cast listings like ‘assassin #3 or cop #2’ either. I give everyone a name and want to know who they are. I want to make it as human as possible. Those are the kinds of movies I want to watch. I want to know about the world.”

If Christian Gudegast has any advice for young filmmakers, it would be not to skimp on research. It was the boatloads of research by the writer/director of Den of Thieves: Pantera that led to the most sophisticated diamond heist in cinema history. More elaborate and attention-to-detail focused than any previous movie, the 2018 sequel’s climatic score was born and bred from hours and hours spent on location building a world. While Ocean’s Eleven and other movies chose flash and dash, Gudegast did the legwork and carved out something sophisticated.

***MILD SPOILERS TO FOLLOW*** ***MILD SPOILERS FOR NEWISH MOVIE***

Not one to rest for a second even though Pantera still sits as the box office champ a week after opening in cinemas everywhere, Gudegast took time out from recovering from losing his family’s home in the California wildfires to speak with me about crafting a world worth returning to. After such an entertaining and high-octane original, he could have leaned into that again, but he chose something different. From the moment Den of Thieves hit theaters seven years ago, Gudegast knew the direction for a follow-up.

“I knew when researching Den 1 that I came across so much information from the FBI, LA County Sheriff’s office, and hung out with all of these thieves. Did tons and tons of research. There was so much material that it was enough for a television show. I knew right after doing Den 1 that I wanted to do Den 2, and what I wanted to do with the character. When you sit down to do it, you think more deeply about it and refine certain stuff. But I knew I wanted to go to Europe, that I wanted it to be about diamonds. I knew I wanted to bring Big Nick out of his comfort zone.”

Gudegast shed most of the original’s cast in crafting a new world from his Den, retaining Gerald Butler’s Big Nick O’Brien and O’Shea Jackson Jr.’s Donnie except for a few unlikely returnees, including “Lobbin Bob.” Played by Jordan Bridges with a dry humor that syncs perfectly with Butler’s Marlboro man swagger, the FBI agent becomes the unlikely helper in Nick’s Pantera mission. Small character touches like the bickering between the two law enforcement officers were vital to Gudegast in making the world more authentic. Everyone needs a Bob to give them intel and then be told promptly to get the fuck out of his truck.

Gudegast admitted that there was a lot of material with Bridges and others that will have to wait for the Blu Ray release, unless it fits its way into the next sequel.

“Unfortunately, there’s a lot of scenes we shot with Bob that didn’t make it into the movie. Three of the best scenes are not in the movie, but that’s a function of running time. I argue to studios that in the era of streaming, that doesn’t matter anymore. They want the two hour and 15 minutes, which is sort of a cutoff before losing a screening per day. There were a couple of others that were hilarious that didn’t get into the final cut, and the argument against them was that it was too funny.”

Gudegast has unlocked a fine Butler quality with the comic timing and ability to fire zingers and give a protagonist some depth as they swim in antagonistic waters. The filmmaker and actor have developed a shorthand, something bred from the movie star being a throwback.

“He’s a big, strong dude. Man’s man. A lot of guys these days are boys, but he’s a man. In every sense of the word. He and I are similar and have a shorthand. He’s a really good dude and human being. If you get in a fight at a bar, he’ll be there for you.”

It reminds me of what Doug Liman said about Brad Pitt being a one-man crew. He rode to set on his bike and left the same way. The Butler swagger works the same way with his on screen persona. He easily generates Big Dick Nick energy but also makes you care about what happens to the cop who went gangster. He does the same thing that Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone did back in the day, only sprinkling in some Bruce Willis and Charles Bronson gritty realism.

Gudegast takes it deeper, pushing Pantera to feature one of the most detail-oriented, patient heist sequences in a long time, if not ever. What most films in the genre would cut together in a minute or two runtime sequence gets stretched out to nearly an entire act in the sequel. While some film critics complained that it was implausible, the filmmaker reiterated several times that it’s all based on real heists.

“It’s based on actual heists. That’s how it actually went. There was no small detail left unexamined. We had technical advisors with me the entire time. I had a thief with me and a cop. They were the guys that everything in the movie is based on. Every detail is 100% the reality. When you hear about it, it’s fascinating. We wanted to do it with no make believe shit. The timing of the CCTV monitors is how one heist was done. You tapped into the cell phone, and knew exactly when they could walk through. The experts show us how it’s done, here’s the tools, and we didn’t adjust a thing. Exactly how it’s done.”

Gudegast can respond to adversity on the spot, something he showed during a rooftop sequence that required a new location at the last minute. In having to use their own headquarters home to finish a scene, they battled 50 mph winds to get the job done. It’s an ability he’s employing in real life right now with finding a new place to live after his home was taken out by the wildfires.

“My parents house, my house, everything burned down. I just need to figure out where I’m going to go. I’m trying to avoid a buddy’s couch. It’s crazy. The logistics are fucking insane. Simple things like… someone asking me for my mailing address have me saying, ‘Oh nope, sorry, that’s gone’. It’s crazy but we move forward in life. That’s what we do.”

Gudegast is moving forward with a third Den of Thieves movie, one that promises to once again change the recipe with the hopes of creating something authentic. That’s the full-time goal for the filmmaker, not showing an impressive body count or filling the screen with soulless characters. Pantera’s finale left a lot of juice in the rag left to be squeezed, especially after a few twists and turns involving a thrilling car chase and some double-crosses. Like all things in life, the plan was there from the jump but it evolved once the boots hit the ground.

“We had that from the beginning but at the same time, there is the movie that exists on the page and then you go shoot the movie, you throw the script away. All you have is what you have on film. It’s often different from what was on the page, things changing when you adapt to shoot it. We had to have several options. You don’t want to pay for reshoots because it’s expensive. Let’s have different options and we’ll cut it together.”

In another example of being a blunt, get-it-done sort of filmmaker, Gudegast sounded stoked for the next Den of Thieves adventure, producing some rather alluring details.

“The next one we’re bringing back more guys from the first one, the regulators. Nick is going to be on the run, so they’ll get back involved. We’re bringing in new characters too, including one big new character that I think will be pretty exciting. It’s going to be geopolitical and involve art. The precious resources of the world. This one is going to be fucking crazy. New criminal underworld, more heavy, Ukrainians involved.”

With most action fan critics whining about useless body counts and replicating the same shit from the last ten movies, Gudegast aims to blend more authenticity in his adventures and show you things based on reality involving a heightened cinematic sense. Years of combat training and being friends with Navy Seals and cops will always make his action sequences sing, but the attention to detail is his signature trait. He’s lived and breathed Den of Thieves for a decade, but is just getting warmed up like Pacino proclaimed in Scent of A Woman.

Part David Ayer and part Michael Mann, Christian Gudegast makes movies his way and on his time. In other words, LOTS of research makes a refined product.

Den of Thieves: Pantera can and SHOULD BE enjoyed in movie theaters right now. The first one is available to stream, rated #1 right now on Max. Watch it twice. Good cinema should be savored.